Autor Wątek: Please, help me friends!  (Przeczytany 4479 razy)

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Edda

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Please, help me friends!
« dnia: Listopad 02, 2011, 21:50:25 pm »
   Hi, I bought in Lodz nice car Polonez Borewicz a we make change this car to Polonez 2000rallye / like replica / for Rally legend in CZ.  I want ask You about this -
      1. Have You got some photo documents, mainly from interior, engine place and  chassis?

       2. We look for the contact on former drivers FSO Polonez. We will want invite them on the start in the Prague 27.4.2012 for start with our replica. Is not real race, rather meeting.

                                        Thank You Ed Patera

 reference to our webside / photogalery/ - http://greengrass.rajce.idnes.cz/Rallye_Praha_Revival/, http://www.edda.cz/mscrdovrchu/index.php?m=fotogalerie
 x.racing@seznam.cz

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« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: Listopad 03, 2011, 19:10:51 pm »
Hello, I have a collection of photos with Polonez 2000 Rally and 2000 Turbo as well, photos of every evolution.

I don't have documents but you can ask FIA about group II, IV, and B homologation, but they are quite different to original specification (Sometimes allowed mods weren't used in some years evolutions)

I may try to contact you with some other replica constructors, give me a few days. Those quys are Piotr Zaleski, Adam Dowgird and Marcin Derewońko.

You may also try to contact Jacek Jurecki who runs moto.interia.pl he has contacts with Andrzej Jaroszewicz, former FSO driver and OBRSO director. I'll send you his e-mail.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 03, 2011, 19:21:37 pm wysłana przez Sparrow »
Osiągi samochodów FSO fabrycznie mierzone z 5 osobami i 50kg bagażu na pokładzie.
części nadwozia w kolorze 44E i rogal do Rovera

Edda

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Odp: Please, help me friends!
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: Listopad 03, 2011, 20:40:29 pm »
 Thank You, I will wait! In CZ is Polonez unknown car, we have not experience with this car. I discovered in Results Rallye Tatry 1981 this drivers - Stawowiak Maciej, Radecki Andrzej, Bialowas Andrzej and Kobylninsky Jerzy. <ok>

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« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: Listopad 04, 2011, 15:25:46 pm »
You may find some technical assistance here, when it comes to parts which comes from production car, eg. main gears which are avaible in 5 ratios. About other things you probably will have to talk with replica constructors.

Maciej Stawowiak was top FSO driver untill 1981, when he was forced to quit, I read that there were some political reasons. Tomasz Ciecieżyński, Włodzimierz Groblewski and since 1983 Marian Bublewicz & Janusz Szerla were works drivers for Polonez 2000, sometimes also Paweł Przybylski and few other guys who usualy raced in Polonezes 1600 and 1.5 Turbo.

Also John Lyons (Manx 81 winner), Mike Stuard, Teemu Ekho and Marija-Liisa Korpi used to drive it.

Rear LSD differential for rally Polonez is Colotti T-239 Duo-Block or T-208 Coppia Frenata but I'm not sure which one exactly. Both seem to be dedicated for Polonez. T-208 is described as for Polonez but T-239 is described as Polski and Polish rally driver Tomasz Cecot had it in his Polonez Caro 2000. As well dog-cluth gearbox is Colotti.

If rally legends regulations allows some changes which are not in FIA homologation I suggest that you install a wide suspension and wide rear axle from Polonez Caro MR 93 which was produced since winter 1993. Then you don't have to use so big distances.
Osiągi samochodów FSO fabrycznie mierzone z 5 osobami i 50kg bagażu na pokładzie.
części nadwozia w kolorze 44E i rogal do Rovera

Edda

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Odp: Please, help me friends!
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: Listopad 04, 2011, 21:05:33 pm »
 <spoko>, I have got interest only about Polonez 2000. Because the car we have only for legend rally, not real race, the gearbox will be  series Fiat / we bought engine and gearbox from Fiat 132 - is it all right?/, but LSD diff. have to be! The engine is half - race level with weber. Had Original Polonez2000   vertical or horizontal carbu??,

    Please, now I need mainly contact to some former FSO drivers.

                                                    Thank You Ed

 Our Polonez last weekend - http://www.beos-photo.com/galerie/displayimage.php?album=176&pos=88

  Now the car is dismantle.

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« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: Listopad 05, 2011, 15:56:57 pm »
and gearbox from Fiat 132 - is it all right?

Yes, Polonez was designed for Fiat 132 engine and 2000 used it.
Had Original Polonez2000   vertical or horizontal carbu??,

Original had 2 double Webers, on some photos it has four non-filtered throats on top, on some photos it has air filter, but it is also possible to mount in there carburettors with side intakes. Anyway two double carburettors, or in some versions mechanical injection, Kugelfischer probably.

Our Polonez last weekend - http://www.beos-photo.com/galerie/displayimage.php?album=176&pos=88

You probably have 4.1 main gear in your Polonez. It's possible to put in there 4.3 or 4.55 if you'll need better acceleration, or even 5.something but extremely rare.

I see that is CE version... This means that if you wish the exact replica of 78-84 car you'll need big rubber bumpers from different versions. Later models had same bumpers as they are in your car.

Please, now I need mainly contact to some former FSO drivers.

I soon as I'll get contacts I'll send an e-mail or p.m.

Btw. watch this:  <ok>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8REaXTx-1Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pguso0fznWk&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL0E0Mu-yt0&feature=related
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 05, 2011, 16:16:35 pm wysłana przez Sparrow »
Osiągi samochodów FSO fabrycznie mierzone z 5 osobami i 50kg bagażu na pokładzie.
części nadwozia w kolorze 44E i rogal do Rovera

Edda

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Odp: Please, help me friends!
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: Listopad 05, 2011, 21:18:24 pm »
Really I thank You!!! We choose racing colour - yellow - green, it is very attractive!! It is 1987???

  My mail is -  x.racing@seznam.cz

 Today I finded on result Rally Šumava 1985 next drivers - Groblewski, Koper

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« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: Listopad 06, 2011, 19:44:56 pm »
It's not yellow-green. It's yellow - dark blue. The configuration that appears most often in the videos was introduced in 1985 or in 1986, and most of footage is 86 and 87.

Generally:
78- White with wide red stripe, no body kit, Cromodora silver wheels , lots of chromes, FSO dashboard (no FIA homologation)
79- Wolf Racing F1 colours (pomegranade and red), ATS silver wheels, red flat widening fenders (gained goup IV homologation)
80- white and red again, ATS silver wheels, lots of chromes, white real widening body kit, VDO dashboard (gained group II homologation)
after this year aerodynamic Vitaloni side mirros shows up instead of Cromodora Astro
84- yellow with dark blue stripes, no chromes, yellow ATS wheels, dark blue front spoilers, VDO or FSO dashboard, (gained group B homologation)
85- I believe this was the year when small bumpers where introduced
86 probably, new yellow and dark blue configuration, yellow front spoilers, yellow ATS, no chromes VDO or FSO dashboard. side winddows are plastic
87- last season of Polonez 2000 (banned)

Since 1984 there was also Polonez 2000 Turbo, most often based on 3 door- pseudo Coupe version, with large intake on a bonnet and smaller intakes under bumper. Some people say there was a double charge with turbo and kompressor also but there are no proofs. Nobody knows the power, the construction technical data, no FIA homologation.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 06, 2011, 19:54:59 pm wysłana przez Sparrow »
Osiągi samochodów FSO fabrycznie mierzone z 5 osobami i 50kg bagażu na pokładzie.
części nadwozia w kolorze 44E i rogal do Rovera

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« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: Listopad 06, 2011, 20:06:01 pm »
One more thing: You will need a first part of Fiat 132 main drive shaft and probably you will have to cut another hole in the floor because FSO gearbox is not only smaller than Fiat's but also stick shift comes directly from the box. In Fiat it doesn't. It's probably not necesary only if small version of Colotii Fiat Dohc dedicated gerbox is used.
Osiągi samochodów FSO fabrycznie mierzone z 5 osobami i 50kg bagażu na pokładzie.
części nadwozia w kolorze 44E i rogal do Rovera

Edda

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Odp: Please, help me friends!
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: Listopad 06, 2011, 20:07:26 pm »
Really dark blue? I finded photo  and have a look it is like green. Now I watch again your video  - Its true that is dark blue..

 Photo - http://www.edda.cz/mscrdovrchu/index.php?m=fotogalerie&g=12

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« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: Listopad 07, 2011, 11:45:29 am »
The photo you've found shows modern replica in Abarth museum Nehtherlands, based on much younger Polonez Caro MR93. Original was always dark blue.

All original cars were dismantled, all 2000s we can see today in any rally are replicas or reconstructions.

Last original rally Polonez built by OBRSO was 1600 and this one was wrecked in 1997. In 1994 this car won v-ce Championship of Poland in A6.  <ok>

Last year Zaleski's Polonez 2000 based on FIA g.IV homologation driven by Tomasz Myszkier won GP Sopot twice in it's class. In HS group lost only with one Porsche 911 for 1 second. In general clasification he won with Leon Supercopa, Escort Cosworth, and some BMWs and Subarus, lost only with 400HP+ cars.

I've sent a few e-mails to persons who have contacs, they should send info back directly to you. If something else will  turn up, I let you know.

Some tech info that may be of some help:

Rear axle was supported by Panhard, probably from Lada 2107
Front brakes Porsche 912
Shock absorbers: Bilstein, three types: rally, safari-akropol, monte carlo
2 Carburettors: Weber (probably) IDF 48
steel cluth 145/215mm
Main gears used for motorsport: 4,1; 4,3; 4,55; 5,37
There wasn't any rear stabilizer bar but it's possible to put there stabilizer from Polonez Kombi.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 07, 2011, 17:59:20 pm wysłana przez Sparrow »
Osiągi samochodów FSO fabrycznie mierzone z 5 osobami i 50kg bagażu na pokładzie.
części nadwozia w kolorze 44E i rogal do Rovera

Edda

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Odp: Please, help me friends!
« Odpowiedź #11 dnia: Listopad 07, 2011, 18:02:19 pm »
 Again I thank You! Yesterday I bought 3 disc ATS 7x13 / For front axle/, now I looking for 8x13 for rear axle. Is this combination possible?

      Now we are preparing  body work  for mouting rollbar. Where is rollbar fix in rear part the car? <ok>

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« Odpowiedź #12 dnia: Listopad 07, 2011, 19:31:49 pm »
Now we are preparing  body work  for mouting rollbar. Where is rollbar fix in rear part the car?

Sorry, I do not have knowledge about rollbars, neither about full cages. What is the rollbar fix?

I believe "ajk" - the fellow who estabilished this forum has some plans of rollbars for Polonez.

Btw. you must do something with front stringers. They are quite soft and may collapse when you go fast with hard suspension or start jumping. Even if they won't, after a year or two you will find suspension loosing geometry if you wont make stringers stronger.

Again I thank You! Yesterday I bought 3 disc ATS 7x13 / For front axle/, now I looking for 8x13 for rear axle. Is this combination possible?

FSO team used 6x13, 7x13 and 8x13 wheels. Combination is possible but: Polonez tends to understeer due to an Ackerman setup of steering system and front suspension based on 2 arms. It's not recommended to put wider wheels at the back, FSO team never did it that way. It may look good but may give you lots of problem with turning.

You will have to work a while to find setups which will give you a balance between under and oversteer. Some guys have problems with it. Eg. the dark yellow Polonez 2000 owned by Mr. Galant is quite exact technical reconstruction but suspension setups made him understeer almost all the time.

You can use distances and put in your car MR93 wide suspension and axle but wheels should be same size at front and rear axle.

It's also a good idea to make a negative camber angle. You may also need to look for a bit different toe setups.

I forgot about something: Original works 2000 had quick steering gear and as you probably suspect, uniball suspension. (Sorry If I'am talking about obvious things, I just don't know what is your experience with motorsport)

Btw. I saw beatifull Cromodora rims with you car, I hope you'll keep them :)
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 07, 2011, 19:46:07 pm wysłana przez Sparrow »
Osiągi samochodów FSO fabrycznie mierzone z 5 osobami i 50kg bagażu na pokładzie.
części nadwozia w kolorze 44E i rogal do Rovera

Edda

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Odp: Please, help me friends!
« Odpowiedź #13 dnia: Listopad 08, 2011, 20:04:43 pm »
  Thank You for your advice, I all understand, I am active 24years in autosport / mainly hillclimb/, but my english is not good...:-)

  My last car - http://ondra333.rajce.idnes.cz/Edda_cup_Velka_Chuchle_2010/#IMG_9121.JPG

  Rollbar fix - I thought , where is rollbar or roll cage??? attached, fixed to body work in rear part car- on wheel well, floor ?

   The Cromodorra rims are from Lada 1600 Rally , who we also prepared for our event. Our invitation accept Nikolay Bolschich from Moscow, former Lada drivers

   Our Lada / the suspension and axle are not ready/ - http://www.edda.cz/mscrdovrchu/index.php?m=fotogalerie&g=12
   and original - http://photo.qip.ru/users/vfts/3863329/91367670/

   Please, send me your mail, thanks Ed

   

Edda

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Odp: Please, help me friends!
« Odpowiedź #14 dnia: Listopad 08, 2011, 21:56:05 pm »
 Please, can you send me contact mail to mr. Jurecki? How You wrote. Thanks

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« Odpowiedź #15 dnia: Listopad 10, 2011, 14:48:26 pm »
I have already sent Jureckis e-mail to you by forums private message. I'll do it again by my personal e-mail.

Rollbar fix - I thought , where is rollbar or roll cage??? attached, fixed to body work in rear part car- on wheel well, floor ?

I believe that in rear part of body the cage is fixed to the floor in the place where rear seats are mounted in roadcar.  There are stringers under this place, spring mount and very thick plates (I had to cut them once so I saw them personally). But I'm not very sure of it. You should talk to "ajk", Derewońko, "Winiar", Dowgird or Zaleski. Btw. did any of them wrote to you? Also the "Smar" user of this forum has cage in his Polonez, maybe he can help. However I do not see the better place for rear fixes, as I said, frount mount of rear spings and lots of stringers are exactly under rear seat. But I'm not professional and surely I do not have knowledge about cages.

Some guys puts there cage form Fiat Cinqecento.

It may be a good idea to add strut between the sides of car where the the back of rear seat is supported, because there was a strut in early Polonezes but they removed it quickly to make car more practical.

I will select a photos which may be of some help, check my contacs and send this all to you by my personal e-mail this evening. Right now I have to solve some problems with my car before tomorrows rally. It's not professional so I don't have the cage.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 10, 2011, 14:53:58 pm wysłana przez Sparrow »
Osiągi samochodów FSO fabrycznie mierzone z 5 osobami i 50kg bagażu na pokładzie.
części nadwozia w kolorze 44E i rogal do Rovera